Corruption? No...!

[Falhado]

Band my own group? I only wish to have a flock, a following. Not necessarily of all my own beliefs, however, one who believe in not making the first blow, but instead, defending those who wish it so.

Before one makes enemies, one would wish to make friends, however tenative the bond of souls may be. I propose we, enlighten, those who own The Corporation.

Do you have enough faith and goodwill to protect that which you wish for yourself?

May your faith guide you to the light.

[Somefreakoverthere]

*starts playing about with a torch*

see?i found the light by turning this thing on....Does that make me holy?

*turns it off quicky and tosses it over her shoulder*

[Shine]

I had sort of promised myself i'd stay out of this. I had had my fill of academia climbing up to the top of the ivory towers (chuckle: ivy league towers at that) and the view from the top is that it isn't about rational reasoning. Your never gonna prove anything religious to anyone that way. Thats not the basis of faith. Stevie Wonder quoted someone (wonderfully so) saying "Its not the religion, its the relationship" and that is so true. the faith I experience is most primarily a relationship with another "person", not a cosmic concept. I indeed sense a loving, supportive, sometimes corrective, "someone else". Could that be subjective and delusional (parent figure archetye, writ large), yah, sure, maybe, but I don't think so. My understanding of it is informed by my interpretaions over time, by other persons in my "faith community" and by a long (admittedly checkered) history in which this divine "other" seems to be engaged in "self expression", communicating who it is and what it is up to, and we who sense its presence and share in its love are to become its hands and feet, and mouths in the world today. We are not doing such a good job, huh?! I cannot (and perhaps should not) convince someone else that I am right by hitting them over the head with a particular dogma, but rather by living in relationship with them (which sometime involves explanations of my beliefs, and sometimes not.) As they see and experience my faith made real in my life, hopefully they will come to share it. Am I deluding myself,? maybe. Is my life made more meaningful? yes. Is the world a better place? That would be the goal, but we're not doing too good are we. Do any of the alternative world views offer me a better, more meaningful, life experience or move the world in a healthier direction? Not in my experience. Does the falling rock miraculously get prevented from crushing the child? No, but the divine person deeply grieves along with the rest of us, (having experienced the death of many of its own children, one in particular) and helps us to pull our selves back together so as to be able to struggle to find the ways to prevent future falling rocks.

We do each other a great dis-service if we spend time in theological discussion only to end up as "antagonists" and thereby hindering the possiblility that we might find supportive friendship in our relationship. If I cause someone to put up additional "walls" so as to reinforce their "me-first" or "me-only" position, then I have done the world a dis-service by removing another person who might have come to care for the poor, the out cast, or the oppressed. We do not have to think alike, but if your heart is as my heart is we can work together to move each other and our world to a better place. And if someone truly does not care, or seeks to dominate and subjugate others, then I am not going to change them by academic argument.

Having expressed my views on a back side page of an obscure internet chat space, please do not stereotype me and box me together with the plastic pollyanna happy Jesus freaks, the syruppy and deceptive tele-evangelists, the judgemental us-against-them super fundamentalists, nor the cliqueish potluck supper church ladies. Lets continue to enjoy RPGing together.

[Raven]

Father mac. Do not cross us. If you do you will regret it. And please keep your preaching of "The light side" and how "God will save us all". God saves no one. He leaves us to die. I wish to tell you a true story, I wrote this out of respect for the poor child who was killed.

A mother sat with tears on her face,
Her child was dying, crumpled and torn.
She wished that she could take her place,
and not be left behind to morn.

"Why her!?" She screamed to the sky,
"Why not me?!" She yelled to someone.
She crumpled on the road to cry,
sobbing and screaming under the sun.

She'd heard a skid,
she'd heard a bump.
She didn't know her kid,
had been the cause of the thump...

She had worshiped and prayed,
to the "big cheese" in the sky.
But as she had been afraid,
he'd left her girl to die.

The man had fled,
driven away.
As the little girl bled.
Meeting her maker that day.

If god cared, would he have let that child die? No. I say, do onto others, before they do onto me.

[Miyanokouji]

What you say makes a lot of sense to me, Shine.
I'm not a believer, but I do believe that good things come to good people, while bad people will have bad things brought to them, perhaps not now, but in an other-life. I doubt that there is an afterlife, but I wish I believed in one.

[Leporidae]

Acttually, I beleive in no god, I belive in the therory of evelution. There is no good, no bad, just neutrality. Everything you do, every step you make, and everything you say has cons and pros. You will have to face concenquenses against you and in your favor. Live is never dull, for there is always something new to try. the true and only person you should respect the most is you. For you make your desisoins, you control you, you control what path you choose to take, you choose what to say, think, and feel. etc. etc. If you go back in time and do something diffren from what you last did, you will open up a whole new, diffrent path with many new options, but without your old options.

I think I know why people make up gods and godesses. People are awfully curious animals and want to know about everything. But there are some questons they will never be able to awnser, so they do a whole show where they make a god(ess) or two, make up rules and other stuff. This could take years to make and usually takes a group to do. They have to make it belivible and understandable if they want it to be suscessful. It wasn't to hard to do that back then when civilization was young since they didn't know as much about the world as us. People might also create gods for stuff they want like power, riches, support, etc.

Personly, I think religions was not a wise choise to make. For many more problems were created then the number of problems solved. like for example, now people are mean to otheer people just becuse their religions are diffrent and think the other's person's religion is wrong. Then again, people wern't very wise at the time they started religions in the first place. They probibly started before ancheint egypt.

Ah well

[Falhado]

Many of you make extremely good points, I must say with all due respect Shine that your words are indeed quite moving. I myself aim to alienate none, and include all.

However, it may be my personality, or my beliefs that drive others away. I do not try to, ram, if you excuse the expression, ideas into others, but more so, open a door or many doors to beliefs.

And yes, I would like to roleplay peaceably, if all shall allow it.


Raven, it appears that I have already crossed you and your, Council. Only because I voiced my opinions, was, jumped on, if you excuse the expression.

And, your poem, or story if you prefer the term, is indeed a moving story. Please, do not see that as condescending. I hope you see my sincerety.

However, I am not one to judge the ideaologies and motives of God, God's or Godesses. I can only speculate and discuss what events mean. Yes, death is sad, and yes it comes to us all. Should it? Or should it not. How would a society such as ourselves, with such friction between beliefs survive with those who live forever? We would starve through lack of food, and yet, not die?

Is that not an idea of hell?

But, yes, one dying so young is incredibly sad. Who knows the reasons behind it. Apart from the fact that the driver was most clearly one with an impure soul and beliefs.

However, thinking of sadness continually will achieve nothing, it will only make you feel older, quicker, a poem I once read, and, I have not been able to find out who wrote it, so it remains anonymous:

A little health,
A little wealth,
A little house and freedom,
And in the end,
A little friend
With little cause to need them

Is it fluffy? Yes. Is it hopeful? Yes. Recite it to yourself when you believe there is no way for you to continue, because there is always a way.

Never give in to the dark side and the dark thoughts. Some, never return, and those who do have a weight on their shoulders for a long time.

[HisLordship]

I agree with the non-secular parties in this regard. Indulgent whining or baiting of the so-called opposition does not make for a pleasant situation. Please, for the sake of common decency and general peacekeeping, show some respect.
Yes, the Father did invoke this upon him. I respect the ire of my fellow Councillors, and will assist them in future endeavors. But please do not overtly express it. This is a forest, and flaming never did bode well for forests. Cool your livers and the gall therein, and be off, all sides in this spitting match!

[Ashen Rain]

WARNING: Please read the first paragraph after this warning, to make sure that you don't read what you don't want to read.

(I'd like to admit, before I begin... that honestly, I've only really read the last page of this thread, so if I'm missing something, I'm not ignoring you, really. My apologies to any whom I may offend with this... I really don't see how I can offend anyone by saying that I believe in God... I'm also not attempting to rub this in anyones face because really, you don't have to read it. It's your choice. Please, don't be upset with me for writing this, because it's what I believe, and other people have posted up what they believe as well. If you honestly don't want to hear this, then please do scroll right past this entire thing after reading the first paragraph.)

[Falhado]

Another in depth explantion of beliefs. And, very interesting reading too. I do honestly believe in what goes around comes around. Oh indeed.

A side note, if you bear with my ramblings, yes, I believe in Gods and the suchlike. And yes, I also believe in evoloutioon. The two go hand in hand. It is impossible not to believe such a thing. Evoloution is based on choices though is it not? We evolve our personalities through our choices. You may not believe this, but every new friend you make, every new person you meet, it will have a bearing on you in one way or another.

As you get older, things you know, believe and care about change. An evoloution of sorts.

Let me put this another way:

Look at the kangaroo. A marsupial. Highly popular in australia and with tourists. However, masupials are in general a tree dwelling species. So, the kangaroo at one point decided to come down to the land, find new ways of feeding, breeding and living. And how they have adapted.

But, there is a species known as the tree kangaroo. The general consensus of this sub-species, is that some kangaroos went back into the forests and back into the trees. They still have not fully evolved for trees, but a description of them is small balls of fur.

All of this involved choice. And through choice, evoloution.


As for Lep's earlier beliefs, that religion was a bad choice o make for belief. It was inevitable. And yes, some, or even many of the choices made through religion were horrific, evil, forced and wrong. And still today, religion has a large influence on people's lifes and politics. It is difficult for me to watch actions unfold through such choices. Some upset me.

But conflict will always happen. Always. It shouldn't, but, it is another form of evoloution on a grand scale. One day, maybe all can get on well. Until that day, we have to keep going, and hope and pray that we keep moving forwards.


As for the seriousness of this thread, it seems to have taken a very serious turn, and I will not see it in any other light than that to avoid upsetting those with such strong beliefs.


But, another story, from myself if you will:

My nana, well, on my half dad's side. We very rarely saw her once she moved away. But we went on holiday once to a caravan park, and there was this competition. A 'Great Gran' competition. She didn't have an amazing job, lots of money or time. But what she said won her the competition, 'I don't get a lot of time to see my grandchildren, but whe I get the time, I make the most of it'. It was along those lines. Deep I think.

Well, a years ago, she had to leave one job in a pub, the married couple there started to fall out with her. She moved in with her boyfriend, and got a new job. However, the person there wouldn't pay her some money she was owed when she quit.

My nana was a partial drinker (sherry) and a smoker. She got taken ill with a brain anuerism. She pulled through the surgery, and then died later from complications. We believe if she hadn't been so stressed, these problems wouldn't have happened. But, we cannot ignore the cigarettes and alcohol.

But it is the good people that get taken from us. It could be a test from God(s) to see our resolve. Who knows, but I cried at her death and mourned her. But, I remember those words she spoke, and it keeps me strong.


May we all please take a lighter note?

[UncleAsriel]

Since when do you 'believe' in evolution, anyway? Evolution is a theory applied to a closed environment, attempting to explain variations in similar population groups. It does not explain ideas like the meaning of life, or the nature of humanity, or the existence of God. It's simply localized towards biology, it's no big 'take on human thought' sort of affiars.

Why should religion be condemned, anyhow? If a given religion becomes the only institution in society and posesses absolute power over every civil and military action, then yes, it can be quite malign. But, aside from fanatical theocracies of the past, is that a major concern? Even in the secular society today, religion still serves an excellent purpose. By providing yet another set of philosophical standards to contrast new ideas against, religions prove to be another useful tool in the collective mental drawer of modern society. As well, man serve as a centrefold to the community. A few months back, I went to a fish supper at a local church. For a reasonable going rate, a fine fish & chips dinner was awarded. It proved to be a good fundraiser for the church, and a great way for many families (partiuclarly those with a lower income level) to enjoy a night out. Likewise, I went to a mosque a few years back to go to a local rummage sale. The proceeds went towards the local women's shelter, as well as some charitable work for impoverished people in Afghanistan. I had some A quality couscous, downed a couple of meat-thingies-wrapped-in-grape-leaves, and had a swell time. Both such things served the community, wheile helping to serve the community as a whole.

I think Father Mac has a good idea overall, and we ought to move on to a lighter topic. Soooo....
I'll jam a hose into the mouth of a random Evil Council Member, and pump 'em full of helium! Wheeee!

[Leporidae]

[Swix]

*Walks into thread*

*Gets pumped full of helium by UncleAsriel*

I only came in to say that my little bit at the beginning was meant to be my EC character, Fade, talking. And not meant to be taken seriously

*Starts floating away*

[HisLordship]

*Leads in Cornelius on a rope*
"Oh, Asriel? We''ve got a mighty fine zeppelin in the making, here!"