Team Building

[3kul]

More or less self-explanitory, this thread is for people to get/give advice on team building.

I'm looking to get some advice, so my current team for Pearl is as follows:

Empoleon Lv. 62 (this is the Piplup that you sent me coolpikaaa )
Jolly nature, knows Metal Claw, Brine, Surf and Drill Peck.

Infernape Lv. 61
Serious nature, knows Flare Blitz, Mach Punch, Flame Wheel and Close Combat.

Luxray Lv. 62
Jolly nature, knows Crunch, Ice Fang, Thunder Fang and Charge.

Mismagius Lv. 63
Bashful nature, knows Shadow Ball, Psybeam, Pain Split and Perish Song.

Those four are the main ones that I use, so I don't really have any others at that high a level. However, for the most part, I usually have these two along:

Vespiquen Lv. 44
Timid nature, knows Toxic, Attack Order, Swagger, Heal Order.

Staraptor Lv. 41
Lax nature, knows Close Combat, Fly, Quick Attack, Aerial Ace.

It's not a very well balanced team, especially considering that I really only use the four pokemon (though they do work pretty well together and can take most types out without too much difficulty), so I'm wondering what else I should consider adding to it (or if need be, what I should take from it). Any suggestions?

[Embri]

Well, since a Jolly natured Empoleon has a reduction in special attack, you might want to switch Surf for Waterfall.

Other than that, your main four are fine in game, if rather standard. Maybe add a good annoyer/starter and another tank/sponge.

I assuming you're not going to battle competitively with this team, since half of them don't have even remotely appropriate natures and are probably not IV bred, though of course that's an assumption and I could be wrong.

Anyways, for in game you don't need any others, even one or two high leveled pokes will utterly cream all the AI's, good natures or bad, poor IV's or stellar, it doesn't make much of a difference unless you're going competitive.

[Coolpikaaa]

Glad to see you raised it so well 3kul.

And I agree with Embri,you might want something to start off the battle,get a few hits in,lower their stats and such before sending in the big guys to take them out.

-coolpikaaa

[3kul]

That obvious, hm?

They are a little on the boring side, as I caught most of them at the start of the game and stuck with them all the way through. Luxray is the only one that I actually thought about as I bred it to get Ice Fang (to take out the dragon trainer of the elite four ) and a Jolly nature, though that's one of my first real attempts at breeding to get what I want so it's probably not the best...

It's not a competitive team because I don't have access to the internet with my DS, and thus the only non-Pearl person that I have to battle is my younger brother, and he only has four badges atm. It's not really worth calculating every little aspect when I'm not going to be able to use them in a situation in which such things might matter. Plus I'm just not that hardcore with pokemon .

I'm not really that into the linguo either (even though I'm certain that you've explained much of it to me before ), so could you give me some good examples of annoyer/starter pokemon and tank/sponge pokemon please Embri?

EDIT: Ah, posted at the same time as CP. Do you have any good examples that you could give me too coolpikaaa?

[Dr Tanner]

When you get to the Elite Four and fight the second member, you'll see exactly what an "annoyer" is when you try to get by her first Pokémon.

Goddamn, I hate that thing.

[Embri]

Examples of Starter roles -Nothing particularly official, but here are some strategies I've seen over the years, and/or used myself.

The Crippler
Example Moves: Spore, Will-o-wisp, Thunder Wave, etc.

Strategy: Turn 1, hit foe with high accuracy disabling move. Switch to sweeper mode if matchup is favorable, or switch for another teammate if not.

Requirements: Speed, and lots of it, access to a good status move (Sleep, Burn (sometimes) and Paralysis generally preferred.)

The Scout
Example Moves: U-Turn

Strategy: After seeing the matchup, U-Turn if it's not favorable, otherwise continue with other role. U-Turn isn't very effective on it's own, but can be extremely useful when combined with another starter setup.

Requirements: Ability to learn U-Turn, and lots of speed.

The Annoyer
Example Moves: Stat Inducing Moves, Double Team, Substitute, Rest, Toxic, Spikes and Stealth Rock particularly prominent. Whirlwind or Roar often seen in combination with Spikes/Stealth Rock.

Requirements: Tank-ish stats (High defenses, basically, fragile pokemon don't last long enough to pull this off.)

The Baton Passer
Example Moves: Baton Pass, along with Substitute, Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, etc. (Double stat ups preferred, those that increase two stats or one by two levels.)

Strategy: Setup as many stat increases and/or Substitute as possible, then Baton Pass those gains to the next pokemon. Ninjask is most often seen in this role, due to the automatic speed increases provided by it's ability. When passed to a teammate along with possibly a Swords Dance and/or Substitute, it may secure an easy sweep.

The Setup Expert
Example Moves: Too many to list, but common ones include weather (Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Hail, Sandstorm) Trick Room, Light Screen, Reflect, Leech Seed, Aqua Ring, etc. Baton Pass may or may not be included as well, or Explosion.

Strategy: This role is all about priming the battlefield in favor of this Pokemon's teammates. It may also Explode or use another finishing move after setting up, hopefully taking out the opposition.

Requirements: Again, Tank-ish stats, or high speed if running a one move setup and then Explosion.


Tanks and Sponges - These aren't as dictated by movesets as Starters are, but more by statistics. Any "bulky" or "tankish" Pokemon is one with high defense and special Defense - Base stats in both around 100 or better is generally considered good. Dusknoir is a common example - it's Defense and Sp. Defense are both 135. A Sponge is just a variation on a tank, instead of resisting as much damage, it absorbs it. Vaporeon is a decent example here, it's only got 60 base Defense, and 95 base Sp. Defense, but 130 base HP. While it might take more damage, it's better able to withstand those hits because of it's higher HP. In comparison, Dusknoir only has Base 45 HP.

Sponges are also used differently than tanks. A tank is expected to be able to take almost any hit, though not necessarily do much direct damage on it's own. In contrast, a sponge most often enters play on a predicted switch in, and often is only able to absorb, or "sponge" physical OR Special hits. For example, let's say you have a Ninetales out against a Starmie. Starmie is obviously going to use Surf if at all possible, thus it would be smart to switch to a special sponge that can take the hit and save Ninetales from a likely KO.

The classic example is Skarm-Bliss. This, of course, is the combination of Blissey and Skarmory - Blissey is considered to be the best Special Sponge of all the non-ubers, and Skarmory the best Physical sponge. They are very commonly seen together on competitive teams, providing sponging for their teammates while Seismic Tossing, Soft Boiling and healing with Aromatherapy (Blissey) and Spikes/Roost/Whirlwinding (Skarmory).

Sponges with recovery moves are very, very common, for the good reasons that they have the ability to last a few hits, and they *will* be hit due to how they generally enter battle, on the switch-in letting the opponent get a free attack.

[Danikat]

I have next to no PVP experience with any of the Pokemon games so my teams are always designed entirely for in-game use, so they're a balance between what I need for the game world (HMs in other words) and what I need in battle. Having said that the same method always seemed to work well against other people in Pokemon Stadium.

I always have one of each of the following types: Water, Fire, Grass, Rock (or Ground), Psychic and Electric. (Some of them will have a secondary type as well.)
My starter is always with me, and after that I fill the remaining slots initially with whatever Pokemon of that type crosses my path first. If later on I realise they're not keeping up (always the first knocked out, or I'm having to make a special effort to level them up for example) I'll switch them for another of the same type, who I'll then train up to the same level as the rest of the team. (Although I have to admit I'm sometimes more lenient with Pokemon I think are really cool so they're a little more likely to be in the team.)

So in theory by the end of the game I'll have a team made up of the best of each type I've come across. Although for some reason I don't tend to use legendaries.

My stratergy tends to be primarily offensive. Each of my Pokemon will have 3 attack moves (preferably ones that also affect status) and then one non-damaging move, which could do anything really, although I aim for a variety. I also lean towards moves that match the Pokemons type.

Not the most technical system I know but its always worked for me. It also doesn't take things like their nature into account as I didn't know this had an effect. (I jumped straight from Silver to Pearl.)

At the moment (on my way to badge 3) my team in Pearl is:
Grotle (grass)
Lv. 19 Cut, Withdraw, Absorb, Razor Leaf

Geodude (rock)
Lv. 19 Tackle, Defense Curl, Rock Smash, Rock Throw

Psyduck (water/psychic)
Lv. 20 Confusion, Scratch, Disable, Water Gun

Ponyta (fire)
Lv. 20 Tackle, Stomp, tail Whip, Ember

Luxio (electric)
Lv. 20 Tackle, Flash, Spark, Bite

Kadabara (psychic)
Lv. 20 Teleport, Hidden Power, Confusion, Disable

[Embri]

There are five neutral Natures, while all the rest increase one stat by 10% and decrease another by 10%. The most commonly used natures are:

Adamant/Jolly - increases Attack (Adamant) or Speed (Jolly) while reducing Sp. Attack, used for physical hitters.

Modest/Timid - increases Sp. Attack (Modest) or Speed (Timid) while cutting Attack power. Used for Special Sweepers.

Here's a table of all natures.
http://www.psypokes.com/lab/natures.php

Nature also affects the flavor of Poffins your pokemon likes/dislikes.
It's not really that important for those who are going to play exclusively in game, but if you're going competitive, you need every edge you can get. That means perfect nature, bred egg moves, and incredible IV's, plus proper EV training after hatching.

[Danikat]

I think what I might do is wait until I've finished the storyline part of the game and then start working on building a PVP team.

I normally get bored when I'm left with just collecting all the Pokemon anyway, so it'll give me something else to do while I'm working on it.

[Embri]

Very sensible, since it's very hard to build a PvP team until you beat the game. :p You need access to EV reducing berries on the North East Island, plus the new training areas are a big boon.


For those who are not faint of heart on game mechanics, if you're serious about learning Pokemon, try Smogon U.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/index.php

[Danikat]

Yet another reason to put it off. I never understood much about the game mechanics and most of what I do know is from Red/Blue so I have no idea how it'd apply to Diamond & Pearl.

I'm trying to learn as I go along but theres so much to take in, even about the basics I need the time and practice to get the hang of it.

Which brings me to another question, what is EV and IV?